For years my husband, Frank Flavell (CSM, ret), has spoken of how much he admired you and your actions in Viet Nam. Frank passed away last month after a 2 ½ year battle with Myelodysplastic Syndrome, a blood disease, as a result of his 20+ years working on missiles, high intensity radars, and exposure to agent orange. He has battled VA for the same 2 ½ years trying to document service in VN and the DMZ in Korea, neither of which ever showed up in his orders. He was always TDY – the infamous 179-day invisible forays to undisclosed locations. VA has informed me that if we can find anyone who will verify that he served with Frank in either location, they’ll accept that as documentation.
Frank was the short, Irish, opinionated guy with a distinctive laugh that echoed through the halls of Ft. Knox during his final military assignment and as a civilian training developer. I’m also a retired training developer, accustomed to dealing the Army bureaucracy, and I’m determined to try to tie up the loose ends and get his VA compensation straightened out. He simply didn’t have the energy to fight that battle and wouldn’t let me help while he was alive.
Jan Marie called and said that Janet remembers that Frank was in Vietnam in
1969. She thinks he was sent that time from Korea to rescue or escort some
soldiers. As usual, with his MOS, she rarely really knew where he was or
what he was doing until long after the fact. She sends her greetings and
says she remembers you and Jackie with great fondness; she still has a Bible
you signed. Janet and I are on friendly terms; they were divorced years
before I met him. You can reach her at 270-351-6827.
Frank never pursued his disability claim because he was a successful GS12
and didn't need the money. Besides, it just wasn't worth the effort. It
wasn't until he was diagnosed with a disease that VA had positively linked
to agent orange that he began his claim. I'm fighting this battle for Frank.
But I'm also pursuing it because of all the thousands of other special
forces/top secret clearance folks who are in the same position of having
undocumented assignments. I've been a military wife since 1967 and spent 20
years managing the development of Armor doctrine and collective training.
I've worked closely with countless soldiers who had no official combat time
because they were sent to fight where we had no military presence or, like
Frank, went without a paper trail. Guess I'm still the NCO wife taking care
of the troops and their families.
Frank's laugh was his ID. And he got the last laugh at his Celebration of
Life service at our church. After friends told their favorite Frank stories,
we ended the service with everyone singing Frank's favorite song - We All
Live in a Yellow Submarine. For 2 solid weeks on vacation with our 3
granddaughters (ages 6,7,8) we'd sung that song every time we got in the
car. Special memories!
Like Frank, I've never been known for shrinking from a challenge. I've taken
on the Council of Colonels at our higher headquarters and gone a friendly
round or two with our CG. I was generally known at TRADOC headquarters as
the one whose mantra was "If the regulation doesn't make sense, don't do
it!" Then I proceeded to help rewrite the regs. Maybe the VA is the next
project the Lord has in store for me. We'll see...
If you can be of any help in verifying Frank’s service, I’d be grateful.
Bev., let me think and talk a little to my buddies. One of the names
you mentioned is Chief Smith, I think. He has departed this life for
the next but it puts Frank in our AO (area of operations) at about
that time. I think. I am going to put in the mail the memoir I wrote
about my experince in Nam. What makes it pretty unique I think is that
much of it is a composit of many of my buddies. When I talk of some,
they really are several. And, it might be a stretch but not to me, my
experience is Frank's experience and to familiarize yourself with it
might be helpful.Will do. As I think I've said, administratively, VA is often a disaster. Medically, at least here, they are good and mostly staffed by UCSF, which is the UC medschool.
I affirm you for doing this. It is surely a way to homor Frank. I
understand VA quite well. Administratively, they are often a mess.
And, I understand that. They are trying to do a lot and we can never
forget, they are s beauracracy. I am almost positive that I remember Frank when I ran into him in Bien Hoa in early 69. I had come to escort a chaplain out of the country for a less than honorable situation and remember telling Frank and a
couple of guys about what the chaplain had done. It was his laugh that
I remember. Do you have any dates, names or anything from Vietnam.
VIETVET FAMILY PROJECT
Presideo 29464
San Francisco, CA 94129
415 515 8369
Sanfranjerry@comcast.com
April 20, 2010
SUBJECT: CSM Frank Flavell
TO: Whomever It May Concern
My first encounter wit the CSM, then an E6 or E7, I’m not sure as this was in 68 or early 69. We didn’t wear rank or nametags as a rule in Vietnam. I was the Battalion Chaplain, 1/501st Airborne Infantry, 101st Airborne Division. We were at FSB (fire support base) Sandy, very isolated area, close to the South China Sea. Our infantry companies were operating in a five mile radius or so of the FSB. Because I was gone most of the time and out with the companies, my tent was often used for those who happened to have business with the Battalion. Once when I came in from the field, Frank was sleeping in my tent. I remember distinctly as he was friendly and gregarious. I was a little baffled that he was not assigned to our unit. He was one of many that I met where the Army had diverted them from some assignment and sent them to Vietnam. It was really not a good thing as often they were denied pay and other benefits. It was weird and I railed against it then as I saw it as unjust and a misuse of the “needs of the service” (the term used when the bureaucracy wants to screw over the soldier). The reason that I knew about it was that three soldiers had come to our unit with a bogus 179 days, just short of the time where they could draw combat pay and other benefit, i. e., needs of the service). All three were killed. And, it was more common throughout the military than I wanted to believe.
Sorry, I’m railing here. Anyway, Frank’s mission as I remember had to do with this Special Forces A team that was attached to our unit. Just before he arrived and possibly the reason of his assignment, the Viet Cong had captured three members of the 12 men team and killed them, mutilating their bodies and burying them. It was horrible. Frank, I think, spent his time with what was left of this Green Beret A Team. The last time I saw him at Sandy, he was boarding a helicopter with some Viet Cong prisoners and two other A team members. I remember it distinctly because I hitched a ride to one of the Companies on the helicopter. Guys came and went like Frank but I remember him for his sense of humor and his laugh. It was unbelievable. He added immeasurably to us while he was at FSB Sandy. It was a tough time for our unit as we had taken over a seventy percent casualty rate, killed and wounded, the highest ever of a unit in Vietnam.
A few months later, I saw Frank at Bien Hoa, the rear area for the 101st. It was a great reunion. He told me he was going to Germany, he thought. Imagine how super it was a few months later when I saw him at Emery Barracks in Germany. It was like old home week. He was a great soldier and I’m so glad I’ve been able to relive these memories. I am available to discuss anything further. God bless all of Frank’s family. I’m sure they miss him.
Jerry D. Autry
Chaplain (COL), USA. Ret
Also, how did you find me? I keep meaning to ask? This really is a kind of unbelievable coincidence, i.e., to locate the one guy but then again, the Germany/Janet connection. Anyway, quite amazing. God bless.
How did we ever survive without the internet? I’m an old Army researcher. I remembered Frank talking about you, Googled you and found your books (I knew immediately that “Gun-Totin’ Chaplain” was the right guy!), checked out Amazon.com, tracked you through white pages, checked out your church to see if there were any links, went back to Amazon and followed various links until I found your email address on one of the Airborne sites. I figured I’d give you a week to respond to email, then call the phone number I’d found on white pages (after I’d learned that your wife was Jackie and knew I had the right Autry).
I also got lots of practice tracking down classmates for my 50th HS reunion last year.
Fantastic! I can’t imagine that anyone would argue with your comments. I wouldn’t dream of making any changes. I’m going to email it to VA in the morning – after I call and get an address. With luck, they’ll take your Word.doc. I’ll cc you. Knowing VA’s propensity to make everything more complex, I suspect they’ll want a signature or official letterhead or some other “positive ID.” If so, I’ll provide a fax number and address.
I truly appreciate your taking the time to write this letter for me. How much of Frank I never knew! These are things Frank never mentioned, although we often talked of his military years. I learned 42 years ago not to ask questions of anyone with a TS clearance; my ex was on embassy duty when we met and occasionally got a phone call and disappeared without explanation. Sometimes a thoughtless comment from an associate or a TV show would trigger a revelation, but not often. And anything I heard, I never heard. Fortunately I was good at playing dumb!
I’ll follow up next Tues while I’m on post. I have an interview with the director of Training and Doctrine. They can’t fill slots due to the move to Ft Benning next year and have asked if any retirees would like to return to work until next Sept. NO TDY, no supervisory duties, no responsibility, just go to work and do the job. Sounds great! It’ll give me a reason to get up in the morning and I’ll be in my comfort zone with good friends doing work I know how to do. It’ll get me through this first year and give me time to think carefully about selling the big house and changing my life.
Thanks so much for sending your book. It’s much better reading than Armor doctrine and TTPs! As I read, I understood completely why Frank admired you so much. You share a lot of the same views. Many times I could hear him saying exactly the same thing in almost identical words. I just wish he’d let me track you down before he died. He would certainly have enjoyed reconnecting!
Frank often said this country isn’t at war in Iraq. Americans have no clue what it’s about, they sacrifice nothing, they feel no pain. Only the military family is at war, and they sacrifice all. He firmly believed that no one should be able to send our kids into combat unless they send their own as well. He told friends at the Armor School that he’d experienced the pain of war and that was a lesson he really didn’t want his sons to learn. He was very angry at the way the war has been run, especially the repeated combat tours with no recovery time in between. And he often asked civilians how they expected soldiers who were trained to fight and kill people, to be policemen and nation builders. How could they expect a soldier whose instinct was to kill before he was killed to think and ask questions and determine if someone was truly a threat? And then you expect them to come home and behave like perfect gentlemen?
Both of have long been advocates of universal service. It’s one of the few times we agreed with Charlie Rangel! He was very proud of the fact that 3 of his kids (who happen to be mine) did serve their country. Chris served 8 years in KYARNG and resigned his commission 3 months before Bush decided to go back into Iraq. Kimberly, a nurse practitioner who wrote the brain trauma chapter for several nursing texts, was recruited by DoD to be their TBI advisor at DVBIC (Defense and Veterans Brain Injury Center) at Walter Reed. The Lord definitely put her there at the right time. Chuck, our youngest, encountered his 16th explosion on his 3d tour; directed the firefight (he was PSG), got everyone out safely, and couldn’t stand up when he got back to base. He suffered TBI and a spinal cord concussion. One of his troops called his wife, she called Kim, Kim called her folks at Balade and Landstuhl and we knew immediately that his injuries were not life threatening. He was medvac’d home and is now a medically retired MSG. He’s still has balance, vision and hearing problems but he’s finishing up his last year of college and hoping to teach. Frank tried to convince him not to retire, reminding him that vets are important right now and will be cared for – until people get tired of the war and realize they’ll be paying for care of thousands of injured troops forever. He usede ethe same phrase you did: “Nothing’s too good for the soldier, and that’s exactly what they’ll get. Nothing.” He also pushed him to turn in paperwork for his purple heart, telling him to “do as I say, not as I did (and paid for it later in life).” Both did write-ups for their troops, but not for themselves Chuck finally got his purple heart 18 months after the event, after his congressman intervened and forced the division to act. And why did they serve? As you and Frank both said, not patriotism. Chris wanted college money before Frank and I married; I dragged Chuck to the KYARNG recruiter because he didn’t like Mom’s rules and 2 years later when he found himself about to be a father with no job skills, he went active. Kim’s motivation was simple – brain trauma was her passion and she wanted to help guys like her brother, who had TBI after his first tour and kept going back to take care of his guys. Kim’s back from DC now but still works part-time for DVBIC and is trying to set up a TBI clinic at U of Louisville Hospital for Ft. Knox soldiers now that we have a real BCT again. And Chuck was asked to apply for an internship as a veterans advocate working for his CO Springs congressman. He’s learning to fight the system – he’s been out of the Army for 8 months and still has no VA disability rating.
Our minister always said that Frank was his intellectual challenge, the one who made him think about what he believed and exactly why. Nobody else would say anything to him that might be controversial; Frank loved a lively discussion. For the last few months, right up to the day before he died, they had weekly phone calls to keep up their debates. He’d have loved to do the same with you!
Now, once having established your claim, then what does that do. You
surely deserve it. Airborne.I have absolutely nothing from that period. I'm his second wife (for 21 years). Frank was married to Janet at that time; his daughter, Jan Marie, said yesterday that she remembers you from Germany but she was almost sure
that you and her dad had known each other before. Frank had told me that he
never had orders to Nam; he was stationed at Bliss when the Army did a "hey,
you" and sent soldiers to fill vacant slots. He talked of riding through the
jungle in a duster with Sad Song Blue blaring from the radio. He rarely
talked about the war, although he did mention being the ranking survivor
when his platoon was ambushed and being dubbed captain so he could call in
fire support to get the 3 remaining soldiers to safety. He was probably a
PSG at the time. The only names I remember hearing are Tom Gallagher,
Skipper Adams, John House and Otto B. Smith. I know the last two are
deceased. I suspect most of them are from later years, not Nam.
