The Case for Calling Them Nitwits

They blow each other up by mistake. They bungle even simple schemes. They get intimate with cows and donkeys. Our terrorist enemies trade on the perception that they’re well trained and religiously devout, but in fact, many are fools and perverts who are far less organized and sophisticated than we imagine. Can being more realistic about who our foes actually are help us stop the truly dangerous ones?
By Daniel Byman and Christine Fair

In the years after 9/11, the images we were shown of terrorists were largely the same: shadowy jihadists who, even when they were foiled, seemed always to have come terrifyingly close to pulling off a horrific attack. We’ve all become familiar by now with the stock footage of Talibs in black shalwar kameezes zipping across monkey bars or, more recently, perfecting kung fu kicks in some secret training camp. Even in the aftermath of the botched Times Square bombing earlier this spring, the perception persists that our enemies are savvy and sophisticated killers. They’re fanatical and highly organized—twin ideas that at once keep us fearful and help them attract new members.

But this view of the jihadist community is wildly off the mark. To be sure, some terrorists are steely and skilled—people like Mohamed Atta, the careful and well-trained head of the 9/11 hijackers. Their leaders and recruiters can be lethally subtle and manipulative, but the quiet truth is that many of the deluded foot soldiers are foolish and untrained, perhaps even untrainable. Acknowledging this fact could help us tailor our counterterrorism priorities—and publicizing it could help us erode the powerful images of strength and piety that terrorists rely on for recruiting and funding.

Nowhere is the gap between sinister stereotype and ridiculous reality more apparent than in Afghanistan, where it’s fair to say that the Taliban employ the world’s worst suicide bombers: one in two manages to kill only himself. And this success rate hasn’t improved at all in the five years they’ve been using suicide bombers, despite the experience of hundreds of attacks—or attempted attacks. In Afghanistan, as in many cultures, a manly embrace is a time-honored tradition for warriors before they go off to face death. Thus, many suicide bombers never even make it out of their training camp or safe house, as the pressure from these group hugs triggers the explosives in suicide vests. According to several sources at the United Nations, as many as six would-be suicide bombers died last July after one such embrace in Paktika.

Many Taliban operatives are just as clumsy when suicide is not part of the plan. In November 2009, several Talibs transporting an improvised explosive device were killed when it went off unexpectedly. The blast also took out the insurgents’ shadow governor in the province of Balkh.

When terrorists do execute an attack, or come close, they often have security failures to thank, rather than their own expertise. Consider Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab—the Nigerian “Jockstrap Jihadist” who boarded a Detroit-bound jet in Amsterdam with a suicidal plan in his head and some explosives in his underwear. Although the media colored the incident as a sophisticated al-Qaeda plot, Abdulmutallab showed no great skill or cunning, and simple safeguards should have kept him off the plane in the first place. He was, after all, traveling without luggage, on a one-way ticket that he purchased with cash. All of this while being on a U.S. government watch list.

Fortunately, Abdulmutallab, a college-educated engineer, failed to detonate his underpants. A few months later another college grad, Faisal Shahzad, is alleged to have crudely rigged an SUV to blow up in Times Square. That plan fizzled and he was quickly captured, despite the fact that he was reportedly trained in a terrorist boot camp in Pakistan. Indeed, though many of the terrorists who strike in the West are well educated, their plots fail because they lack operational know-how. On June 30, 2007, two men—one a medical doctor, the other studying for his Ph.D.—attempted a brazen attack on Glasgow Airport. Their education did them little good. Planning to crash their propane-and-petrol-laden Jeep Cherokee into an airport terminal, the men instead steered the SUV, with flames spurting out its windows, into a security barrier. The fiery crash destroyed only the Jeep, and both men were easily apprehended; the driver later died from his injuries. (The
day before, the same men had rigged two cars to blow up near a London nightclub. That plan was thwarted when one car was spotted by paramedics and the other, parked illegally, was removed by a tow truck. As a bonus for investigators, the would-be bombers’ cell phones, loaded with the phone numbers of possible accomplices, were salvaged from the cars.)

A similar streak of ineptitude has been on display in the United States, where many of those arrested on terrorism-related charges possess long criminal records and little sense of how to put a nefarious idea into action. A group of Miami men schemed (often while smoking marijuana) to attack targets in South Florida as well as the Sears Tower in Chicago, but they couldn’t get their hands on explosives and were uncovered when the FBI easily penetrated their ranks.

If our terrorist enemies have been successful at cultivating a false notion of expertise, they’ve done an equally convincing job of casting themselves as pious warriors of God. The Taliban and al-Qaeda rely on sympathizers who consider them devoted Muslims fighting immoral Western occupiers. But intelligence picked up by Predator drones and other battlefield cameras challenges that idea—sometimes rather graphically. One video, captured recently by the thermal-imagery technology housed in a sniper rifle, shows two Talibs in southern Afghanistan engaged in intimate relations with a donkey. Similar videos abound, including ground-surveillance footage that records a Talib fighter gratifying himself with a cow.

Pentagon officials and intelligence analysts concede privately that our foes also have a voracious appetite for pornography—hardly shocking behavior for young men, but hard to square with an image of piety. Many laptops seized from the Taliban and al-Qaeda are loaded with smut. U.S. intelligence analysts have devoted considerable time to poring over the terrorists’ favored Web sites, searching for hidden militant messages. “We have terabytes of this stuff,” said one Department of Defense al-Qaeda analyst, speaking on the condition of anonymity. “It isn’t possible that they are encrypting messages in all of this stuff. Some of these guys are just perverts.”

Tawdry though this predilection for porn may be, it is not necessarily trivial. There is, after all, potential propaganda value in this kind of jihadist behavior. Current U.S. public diplomacy centers on selling America to the Muslim world, but we should also work to undermine some of the myths built up around our enemies by highlighting their incompetence, their moral failings, and their embarrassing antics. Beyond changing how the Muslim world perceives terrorists, we can help ourselves make smarter counterterrorism choices by being more realistic about the profile and aptitude of would-be attackers. More and more, as we work to disrupt training efforts, the jihadists we face are likely to be poorly prepared, and while that won’t always ensure a bungled attack, it suggests that terrorists are likely to select targets that are undefended and easy to hit. The United States has spent billions on port security since 9/11, even though terrorists have
shown little interest in ports as targets and even less ability to actually strike them. In contrast, even small investments in training for police and airport-security personnel can make a big difference, as these are the people most likely to encounter—and have a chance to disrupt—an unskilled attacker.

The difference between a sophisticated killer like Mohamed Atta and so many of his hapless successors lies in training and inherent aptitude. Atta spent months learning his trade in Afghanistan and had the help of al-Qaeda’s senior leadership—a fact that underscores the importance of rooting out al-Qaeda havens in Pakistan. After all, fighting terrorism is a chore made simpler when we can keep the terrorists as inept as most of them naturally are.

This article available online at:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/07/the-case-for-calling-them-nitwits/8130/


Immo, thanks always for thoughtful articles. It is something to think
about. These may be bungling terrorists but it is a little like
getting in an accident or getting mugged. Only takes one time. Or
here's a good one. There are three three thousand muggings or so a
week in NYC. When you consider there are 7 mil or so people in NYC,
not alot of muggings in the big picture. However, if you are one of
the three thousand, it is a hundred percent.

Having read for the second time, the book Nomad, which I'm pushing
(Hershi Ali, Somalian went to Holland, became a member of Parliament,
campaigns against Muslim treatment of women, eventually had to flee to
America because we could protect her-her friend Theo Van Gogh killed
by crazed Muslim because of a movie he made where Ali was the voice
over).

She attempts to say how we can address moderate Muslims, and, her case
is weak, as much as I like her, just can't be because the Koran says
kill us.

Here's what I think, not that any will pay attention.
Here's what I started out to say. Terrorists are going to continue to
grow like rabbits, even in America. What we have got to do is get the
moderate ones converted to Christianity. Now, before this is dismissed
out of hand, think about it:
Muslims are muslims for whatever reasons. But, they are not going to
give it up without a belief system to replace it. It is the only hope
we have in this country of taking moderate Islamists (moderate meaning
they have not killed us yet, jihadists, women, etc) and seeing them
convert out of Islam to Christianity.

Hershi Ali kept beating around this althought she is an atheist, she
surely didn't advocate this but her alternate to Islam is an American
type enlightenment. Oh yeah, that'll work.

I think I'm on to something here. Christianity is, in modern
times, the only peaceful religion we have. Don't give me that bullshit
about the crusades or Christian dogma. To be a Christian, you don't
have to accept all the dogma BS. This is the only requirment. You only
have to believe in a loving God who was so loving that he gave up his
son for mankind. And, it is all faith--you don't want to believe, fine
but the atheist bullshit is not going to work with Muslims. They have
got to have a replacement religion, plain and simple. Sure, there are
all kinds of Christian agendas. You have the right wing
fundamentalist, the Cathlics but the core of Christianity doesn't
involve this bullshit, i. e., the Pope parading around or "touchdown
Jesus". Even with the fundamentalist, they are peaceful: ignorant, etc
but peaceful. The occasional abortion nut maybe.

I don't give a shit what most people grasp. If they want to worship a
tree, fine with me and we know some people have a religion of "P" but
I'm telling you: for moderate Muslims who still think that they must
conform to the Koran, (and they all do) kill the infidels, this is our
hope: convert them. Without that, they are going to be jihadists,
constantly be an irritant and in some ways give tacit support to those
trying to kill us. OK, this is good stuff. Power in the blood, God
bless you and God bless "Merica." {{{{{{{LP}}}}}}}

FEEDBACK

Talked to ***a few days ago, my RTO with Alpha Company.


He spoke highly of your book, Gun Toting Chaplain, which I didn't know existed.


I logged on to Amazon.com and ordered a copy. While on that site, I noticed that someone can start a discussion related to the author or book.

So I wrote about you on the Amazon site. Don't think too many people know that such a discussion group-possibility exists, meaning I doubt if there will be many readers, but I'd like to offer you this suggestion.

There's a book that's often required reading in many high schools; I can't stand the book or the author, Tim O'Brien's The Things They Carried. There's no doubt, the guy's a good writer, but I don't respect him or his book, except that it's "well written" in an affected way. O'Brien spent a lot of time including compliments from various REMF critics and has included no comments from real combat veterans. I haven't seen your book, yet; but I suggest that you give the men you served opportunities to make comments about you to be included in a reprinted version of your book(s). When I see a veteran author who only has REMF critics' blurbs about his book, with no real soldiers validating what's been written, I have doubts about the credibility of the author. If you look at what I wrote, I believe you might see that your fellow soldiers's statements about you would be the best recommendation for reading your book.


Greg., you are always thinking. Thanks for your thoughts. The thing about GTC, it reflected my memories and great love for soldiers like yourself. I hope you'll find it that way too.

I've just returned from a Vietvets gathering. It was a platoon gathering, 3d platoon of D Company. Bunch of great guys. We told war stories, watched this great Video that one of our guys put together. It must have taken hundreds of hours, really inspiring. Several of us stayed up almost all night talking. We're getting older, no doubt about it and yet to be honest, suddenly there we were back in the Nam, same ages, same sort of stuff. I am always amazed. As the chaplain, which I always am when I'm with this group, recognize some problems: a couple are recovering alcoholics and one definitely has a drinking problem. Tried to stay away from it but finally had to discuss with him. I do love all you guys.

And, what is absolutely astounding is the fact that health and death have depleted the ranks. What really surprised me too is the degree of agreement we had on the fact that out country had learned nothing from Vietnam. Pretty sad and discouraging. One ventured something we all knew: politicians or government types are far removed from where young soldiers are dying, then in Vietnam and now in Iraq/Afghanistan.


I've tried to call ** a couple of times. I think he's in the "shadows" and definitely needs to be brought out. The last time I talked with him, I thought he was pretty strung out. What can we do to help him?

God bless. Greg, you should write your own memoir. It is in you. Thanks for staying in touch. God bless.

TRACKING DOWN THE CHAPLAIN

For years my husband, Frank Flavell (CSM, ret), has spoken of how much he admired you and your actions in Viet Nam. Frank passed away last month after a 2 ½ year battle with Myelodysplastic Syndrome, a blood disease, as a result of his 20+ years working on missiles, high intensity radars, and exposure to agent orange. He has battled VA for the same 2 ½ years trying to document service in VN and the DMZ in Korea, neither of which ever showed up in his orders. He was always TDY – the infamous 179-day invisible forays to undisclosed locations. VA has informed me that if we can find anyone who will verify that he served with Frank in either location, they’ll accept that as documentation.

Frank was the short, Irish, opinionated guy with a distinctive laugh that echoed through the halls of Ft. Knox during his final military assignment and as a civilian training developer. I’m also a retired training developer, accustomed to dealing the Army bureaucracy, and I’m determined to try to tie up the loose ends and get his VA compensation straightened out. He simply didn’t have the energy to fight that battle and wouldn’t let me help while he was alive.

Jan Marie called and said that Janet remembers that Frank was in Vietnam in
1969. She thinks he was sent that time from Korea to rescue or escort some
soldiers. As usual, with his MOS, she rarely really knew where he was or
what he was doing until long after the fact. She sends her greetings and
says she remembers you and Jackie with great fondness; she still has a Bible
you signed. Janet and I are on friendly terms; they were divorced years
before I met him. You can reach her at 270-351-6827.

Frank never pursued his disability claim because he was a successful GS12
and didn't need the money. Besides, it just wasn't worth the effort. It
wasn't until he was diagnosed with a disease that VA had positively linked
to agent orange that he began his claim. I'm fighting this battle for Frank.
But I'm also pursuing it because of all the thousands of other special
forces/top secret clearance folks who are in the same position of having
undocumented assignments. I've been a military wife since 1967 and spent 20
years managing the development of Armor doctrine and collective training.
I've worked closely with countless soldiers who had no official combat time
because they were sent to fight where we had no military presence or, like
Frank, went without a paper trail. Guess I'm still the NCO wife taking care
of the troops and their families.

Frank's laugh was his ID. And he got the last laugh at his Celebration of
Life service at our church. After friends told their favorite Frank stories,
we ended the service with everyone singing Frank's favorite song - We All
Live in a Yellow Submarine. For 2 solid weeks on vacation with our 3
granddaughters (ages 6,7,8) we'd sung that song every time we got in the
car. Special memories!

Like Frank, I've never been known for shrinking from a challenge. I've taken
on the Council of Colonels at our higher headquarters and gone a friendly
round or two with our CG. I was generally known at TRADOC headquarters as
the one whose mantra was "If the regulation doesn't make sense, don't do
it!" Then I proceeded to help rewrite the regs. Maybe the VA is the next
project the Lord has in store for me. We'll see...

If you can be of any help in verifying Frank’s service, I’d be grateful.


Bev., let me think and talk a little to my buddies. One of the names
you mentioned is Chief Smith, I think. He has departed this life for
the next but it puts Frank in our AO (area of operations) at about
that time. I think. I am going to put in the mail the memoir I wrote
about my experince in Nam. What makes it pretty unique I think is that
much of it is a composit of many of my buddies. When I talk of some,
they really are several. And, it might be a stretch but not to me, my
experience is Frank's experience and to familiarize yourself with it
might be helpful.Will do. As I think I've said, administratively, VA is often a disaster. Medically, at least here, they are good and mostly staffed by UCSF, which is the UC medschool.

I affirm you for doing this. It is surely a way to homor Frank. I
understand VA quite well. Administratively, they are often a mess.
And, I understand that. They are trying to do a lot and we can never
forget, they are s beauracracy. I am almost positive that I remember Frank when I ran into him in Bien Hoa in early 69. I had come to escort a chaplain out of the country for a less than honorable situation and remember telling Frank and a
couple of guys about what the chaplain had done. It was his laugh that
I remember. Do you have any dates, names or anything from Vietnam.



VIETVET FAMILY PROJECT
Presideo 29464
San Francisco, CA 94129
415 515 8369
Sanfranjerry@comcast.com

April 20, 2010
SUBJECT: CSM Frank Flavell

TO: Whomever It May Concern

My first encounter wit the CSM, then an E6 or E7, I’m not sure as this was in 68 or early 69. We didn’t wear rank or nametags as a rule in Vietnam. I was the Battalion Chaplain, 1/501st Airborne Infantry, 101st Airborne Division. We were at FSB (fire support base) Sandy, very isolated area, close to the South China Sea. Our infantry companies were operating in a five mile radius or so of the FSB. Because I was gone most of the time and out with the companies, my tent was often used for those who happened to have business with the Battalion. Once when I came in from the field, Frank was sleeping in my tent. I remember distinctly as he was friendly and gregarious. I was a little baffled that he was not assigned to our unit. He was one of many that I met where the Army had diverted them from some assignment and sent them to Vietnam. It was really not a good thing as often they were denied pay and other benefits. It was weird and I railed against it then as I saw it as unjust and a misuse of the “needs of the service” (the term used when the bureaucracy wants to screw over the soldier). The reason that I knew about it was that three soldiers had come to our unit with a bogus 179 days, just short of the time where they could draw combat pay and other benefit, i. e., needs of the service). All three were killed. And, it was more common throughout the military than I wanted to believe.
Sorry, I’m railing here. Anyway, Frank’s mission as I remember had to do with this Special Forces A team that was attached to our unit. Just before he arrived and possibly the reason of his assignment, the Viet Cong had captured three members of the 12 men team and killed them, mutilating their bodies and burying them. It was horrible. Frank, I think, spent his time with what was left of this Green Beret A Team. The last time I saw him at Sandy, he was boarding a helicopter with some Viet Cong prisoners and two other A team members. I remember it distinctly because I hitched a ride to one of the Companies on the helicopter. Guys came and went like Frank but I remember him for his sense of humor and his laugh. It was unbelievable. He added immeasurably to us while he was at FSB Sandy. It was a tough time for our unit as we had taken over a seventy percent casualty rate, killed and wounded, the highest ever of a unit in Vietnam.
A few months later, I saw Frank at Bien Hoa, the rear area for the 101st. It was a great reunion. He told me he was going to Germany, he thought. Imagine how super it was a few months later when I saw him at Emery Barracks in Germany. It was like old home week. He was a great soldier and I’m so glad I’ve been able to relive these memories. I am available to discuss anything further. God bless all of Frank’s family. I’m sure they miss him.



Jerry D. Autry
Chaplain (COL), USA. Ret


Also, how did you find me? I keep meaning to ask? This really is a kind of unbelievable coincidence, i.e., to locate the one guy but then again, the Germany/Janet connection. Anyway, quite amazing. God bless.

How did we ever survive without the internet? I’m an old Army researcher. I remembered Frank talking about you, Googled you and found your books (I knew immediately that “Gun-Totin’ Chaplain” was the right guy!), checked out Amazon.com, tracked you through white pages, checked out your church to see if there were any links, went back to Amazon and followed various links until I found your email address on one of the Airborne sites. I figured I’d give you a week to respond to email, then call the phone number I’d found on white pages (after I’d learned that your wife was Jackie and knew I had the right Autry).

I also got lots of practice tracking down classmates for my 50th HS reunion last year.

Fantastic! I can’t imagine that anyone would argue with your comments. I wouldn’t dream of making any changes. I’m going to email it to VA in the morning – after I call and get an address. With luck, they’ll take your Word.doc. I’ll cc you. Knowing VA’s propensity to make everything more complex, I suspect they’ll want a signature or official letterhead or some other “positive ID.” If so, I’ll provide a fax number and address.

I truly appreciate your taking the time to write this letter for me. How much of Frank I never knew! These are things Frank never mentioned, although we often talked of his military years. I learned 42 years ago not to ask questions of anyone with a TS clearance; my ex was on embassy duty when we met and occasionally got a phone call and disappeared without explanation. Sometimes a thoughtless comment from an associate or a TV show would trigger a revelation, but not often. And anything I heard, I never heard. Fortunately I was good at playing dumb!

I’ll follow up next Tues while I’m on post. I have an interview with the director of Training and Doctrine. They can’t fill slots due to the move to Ft Benning next year and have asked if any retirees would like to return to work until next Sept. NO TDY, no supervisory duties, no responsibility, just go to work and do the job. Sounds great! It’ll give me a reason to get up in the morning and I’ll be in my comfort zone with good friends doing work I know how to do. It’ll get me through this first year and give me time to think carefully about selling the big house and changing my life.

Thanks so much for sending your book. It’s much better reading than Armor doctrine and TTPs! As I read, I understood completely why Frank admired you so much. You share a lot of the same views. Many times I could hear him saying exactly the same thing in almost identical words. I just wish he’d let me track you down before he died. He would certainly have enjoyed reconnecting!

Frank often said this country isn’t at war in Iraq. Americans have no clue what it’s about, they sacrifice nothing, they feel no pain. Only the military family is at war, and they sacrifice all. He firmly believed that no one should be able to send our kids into combat unless they send their own as well. He told friends at the Armor School that he’d experienced the pain of war and that was a lesson he really didn’t want his sons to learn. He was very angry at the way the war has been run, especially the repeated combat tours with no recovery time in between. And he often asked civilians how they expected soldiers who were trained to fight and kill people, to be policemen and nation builders. How could they expect a soldier whose instinct was to kill before he was killed to think and ask questions and determine if someone was truly a threat? And then you expect them to come home and behave like perfect gentlemen?

Both of have long been advocates of universal service. It’s one of the few times we agreed with Charlie Rangel! He was very proud of the fact that 3 of his kids (who happen to be mine) did serve their country. Chris served 8 years in KYARNG and resigned his commission 3 months before Bush decided to go back into Iraq. Kimberly, a nurse practitioner who wrote the brain trauma chapter for several nursing texts, was recruited by DoD to be their TBI advisor at DVBIC (Defense and Veterans Brain Injury Center) at Walter Reed. The Lord definitely put her there at the right time. Chuck, our youngest, encountered his 16th explosion on his 3d tour; directed the firefight (he was PSG), got everyone out safely, and couldn’t stand up when he got back to base. He suffered TBI and a spinal cord concussion. One of his troops called his wife, she called Kim, Kim called her folks at Balade and Landstuhl and we knew immediately that his injuries were not life threatening. He was medvac’d home and is now a medically retired MSG. He’s still has balance, vision and hearing problems but he’s finishing up his last year of college and hoping to teach. Frank tried to convince him not to retire, reminding him that vets are important right now and will be cared for – until people get tired of the war and realize they’ll be paying for care of thousands of injured troops forever. He usede ethe same phrase you did: “Nothing’s too good for the soldier, and that’s exactly what they’ll get. Nothing.” He also pushed him to turn in paperwork for his purple heart, telling him to “do as I say, not as I did (and paid for it later in life).” Both did write-ups for their troops, but not for themselves Chuck finally got his purple heart 18 months after the event, after his congressman intervened and forced the division to act. And why did they serve? As you and Frank both said, not patriotism. Chris wanted college money before Frank and I married; I dragged Chuck to the KYARNG recruiter because he didn’t like Mom’s rules and 2 years later when he found himself about to be a father with no job skills, he went active. Kim’s motivation was simple – brain trauma was her passion and she wanted to help guys like her brother, who had TBI after his first tour and kept going back to take care of his guys. Kim’s back from DC now but still works part-time for DVBIC and is trying to set up a TBI clinic at U of Louisville Hospital for Ft. Knox soldiers now that we have a real BCT again. And Chuck was asked to apply for an internship as a veterans advocate working for his CO Springs congressman. He’s learning to fight the system – he’s been out of the Army for 8 months and still has no VA disability rating.

Our minister always said that Frank was his intellectual challenge, the one who made him think about what he believed and exactly why. Nobody else would say anything to him that might be controversial; Frank loved a lively discussion. For the last few months, right up to the day before he died, they had weekly phone calls to keep up their debates. He’d have loved to do the same with you!


Now, once having established your claim, then what does that do. You
surely deserve it. Airborne.I have absolutely nothing from that period. I'm his second wife (for 21 years). Frank was married to Janet at that time; his daughter, Jan Marie, said yesterday that she remembers you from Germany but she was almost sure
that you and her dad had known each other before. Frank had told me that he
never had orders to Nam; he was stationed at Bliss when the Army did a "hey,
you" and sent soldiers to fill vacant slots. He talked of riding through the
jungle in a duster with Sad Song Blue blaring from the radio. He rarely
talked about the war, although he did mention being the ranking survivor
when his platoon was ambushed and being dubbed captain so he could call in
fire support to get the 3 remaining soldiers to safety. He was probably a
PSG at the time. The only names I remember hearing are Tom Gallagher,
Skipper Adams, John House and Otto B. Smith. I know the last two are
deceased. I suspect most of them are from later years, not Nam.

LONG AGO FRIEND

Jerry,

For years my husband, Frank Flavell (CSM, ret), has spoken of how much he admired you and your actions in Viet Nam. Frank passed away last month after a 2 ½ year battle with Myelodysplastic Syndrome, a blood disease, as a result of his 20+ years working on missiles, high intensity radars, and exposure to agent orange. He has battled VA for the same 2 ½ years trying to document service in VN and the DMZ in Korea, neither of which ever showed up in his orders. He was always TDY – the infamous 179-day invisible forays to undisclosed locations. VA has informed me that if we can find anyone who will verify that he served with Frank in either location, they’ll accept that as documentation.

Frank was the short, Irish, opinionated guy with a distinctive laugh that echoed through the halls of Ft. Knox during his final military assignment and as a civilian training developer. I’m also a retired training developer, accustomed to dealing the Army bureaucracy, and I’m determined to try to tie up the loose ends and get his VA compensation straightened out. He simply didn’t have the energy to fight that battle and wouldn’t let me help while he was alive.

If you can be of any help in verifying Frank’s service, I’d be grateful.

I am almost positive that I remember Frank when I ran into him in Bien
Hoa in early 69. I had come to escort a chaplain out of the country
for a less than honorable situation and remember telling Frank and a
couple of guys about what the chaplain had done. It was his laugh that
I remember. Do you have any dates, names or anything from Vietnam.


I have absolutely nothing from that period. I'm his second wife (for 21
years). Frank was married to Janet at that time; his daughter, Jan Marie,
said yesterday that she remembers you from Germany but she was almost sure
that you and her dad had known each other before. Frank had told me that he
never had orders to Nam; he was stationed at Bliss when the Army did a "hey,
you" and sent soldiers to fill vacant slots. He talked of riding through the
jungle in a duster with Sad Song Blue blaring from the radio. He rarely
talked about the war, although he did mention being the ranking survivor
when his platoon was ambushed and being dubbed captain so he could call in
fire support to get the 3 remaining soldiers to safety. He was probably a
PSG at the time. The only names I remember hearing are Tom Gallagher,
Skipper Adams, John House and Otto B. Smith. I know the last two are
deceased. I suspect most of them are from later years, not Nam.

The VA rep says he doesn't need details, just a brief statement with an
approximate date that places Frank in Nam. I think you'd qualify as a
"credible source!"

Frank's laugh was his ID. And he got the last laugh at his Celebration of
Life service at our church. After friends told their favorite Frank stories,
we ended the service with everyone singing Frank's favorite song - We All
Live in a Yellow Submarine. For 2 solid weeks on vacation with our 3
granddaughters (ages 6,7,8) we'd sung that song every time we got in the
car. Special memories!

Bev

Bev., let me think and talk a little to my buddies. One of the names you mentioned is Chief Smith, I think. He has departed this life for the next but it puts Frank in our AO (area of operations) at about that time. I think. I am going to put in the mail the memoir I wrote about my experince in Nam. What makes it pretty unique I think is that much of it is a composit of many of my buddies. When I talk of some, they really are several. And, it might be a stretch but not to me, my experience is Frank's experience and to familiarize yourself with it might be helpful.

I affirm you for doing this. It is surely a way to homor Frank. I understand VA quite well. Administratively, they are often a mess. And, I understand that. They are trying to do a lot and we cn never forget, they are s beauracracy.

Now, once having established your claim, then what does that do. You surely deserve it. Airborne.

HOSTILE TAKEOVER BY A BUNCH OF PHILISTINES

Thought you might want to see this. Apparently the ARP Synod leaders fired some of the College/Seminary board members and replaced them with their own men. The original board went to court to reverse that. It is a mess, and painful to me to observe. You know how much I cherish my seminary connection. Lh



Yes, the events that led to the lawsuits have been stressful and very difficult for all of us. This has basically been an attempt at a hostile takeover. We are fighting to keep that from happening. All on campus are concerned about job security. If the takeover is successful, the feeling is that they will let go of most of us and only hire white ARP's and only educate white ARP's at the College and white ARP men at the seminary. If the takeover is not successful, we will be in a tight budget situation and some may have to go. So, the campus atmosphere is tense, to say the least. Not much "real" work is being done as all energies are focused on the events of the day. Please keep Erskine in your prayers. This place is a jewel in the rough and we'd like to keep it this way.

Randa


Randa, so sorry you and all the Erskine folks are having to go through this. I can hardly believe it and appreciate Lamar keeping me in the loop. Sounds like a bunch of Baptists.

I have always felt that Erskine was special. I am going to contribute to the legal fund for sure. If you can think of anything I could do, I will. Tell me what to do.

Here's an example of what can happen to Erskine. After I left Erskine, I went to Southeastern Baptist at Wake Forest, NC, for a year, thinking that I would kind of get my union card. Baptist is pretty much what I had known. After a year of CPE, (not sure we called it that in those days), I went into the Army as a Southern Baptist. A few years later, a group of fundamentalists engineered a takeover of the Southern Baptist Convention. (I'm sure you know this story) Consequently, Southeastern fell to the fundamentalists. They turned SE into a bigoted joke. The fundamentalists are a bunch of Philistines-my way or the hi-way-- and members of the Sanhedrin that Jesus called white sepulchers. The fundamentalists ruined Southeastern, made it into a shadow of its former self. They are the forerunners of the political process that has so infected our country. They are a bunch of "wingnuts" in my opinion and it is almost beyond my comprehension that Erskine would fall to the fundamentalists. Dr. Boyce and other saints from Erskine in heaven have to be figuratively speaking, turning over in their graves. Fight on. God bless you. {{{Jerry}}}}

PRE GRIEF

DIALOGUE 1 Thank you again for visiting. Our friend is "Where she is." She is preparing herself to die in a sense. I think. The last several times we've talked she moves a step closer it appears. Today, she was talking about "hope" that the next round of chemo might give her a while longer. I don't exactly know why but she's not ready it appears. And, then of course, who knows! I think that as the cancer progresses, the body shuts down and when and how is way beyond me. Because I am working on Rose's book, using the blog I've kept all along, I seem to be more accepting and kind of pre dealing with my grief. The will to live, the fierce instinct for survival is far more than I could ever understand .


DIALOGUE 2 I sensed the same thing - planning for her death but fighting it tooth and nail - and can only say, "No one knows until they are there." I keep thinking I would simply ask for a morphine drip and let go, welcoming the trip Home...but so few terminally ill people I've known have felt like that. I guess that doesn't happen. That will to live, as you say -- so strong. And I think it's the same whether people have great faith or no faith...they simply don't want to let go of all that they know. Bless her -- she is grace personified and I had the hardest damn time letting go of her as she clung and sobbed when I was leaving. As my mother used to say when she talked about the afterlife: God, you have got some explaining to do about why you let things happen. (And, knowing my mother, God was pretty intimidated when they finally met in heaven!)

With all you have gone through, with Rose and Victoria and countless others, I think steeling yourself for the loss of this dear and wonderful friend of so many years. Pre-dealing is a good word for it. You know it's coming, you cannot stop it and you simply have to prepare for it. Es

SMALL TOWN CHURCHES

This came from a former parisherner:


You would have loved to be at church on Sunday. It was "Glenn" (Glenn was this African American guy who regular hit me and the Church up for funds, mostly related to some scam) revisited! It's about 11:50, the pastor is wrapping up her "non" sermon (she admitted to being OBE last week so hadn't prepared a "true" sermon), and the door at the back of the church opens, and it was obvious someone had come in. I didn't turn around to look, but after saying hello, it was obvious she had been distracted. Finally, she invites the person to come in and sit down. A black gentleman, dressed in a 70s type suit, enters and sits in the front row on the side by the piano. Ella Ray finishes her comments, starts into the benediction and stops to ask the gentleman his name ... Pastor "somebody or other." I couldn't understand his name. He stands up, tears flowing down his cheek and says how wonderful this church is, how it's the third church God had lead him to this morning, and it was obvious we were colorblind. The story continues. I'd like to believe it was real, but I'm skeptical; however, it was well done. He's on his way to Tracy from Colorado to start a new job Monday morning at 6:00 a.m. The job ... his own "reality" show. His background? He's a four-time grammy award winner, having written "Oh Happy Day," in 1969, another hit for Earth, Wind, and Fire, and two for MC Hammer. He's a little down on his luck and needs $390 for a truck to move his furniture into the house in Tracy and get his wife and 11 kids out of the motel. His parents abandoned him as a child, and his grandmother raised him, requiring him to go to church every Sunday. He's supposedly 53 and a diabetic. (I learned that information downstairs.) Whether or not all this is true, and I doubt it, this guy is REALLY talented. The pastor asks him if he can sing, and he sits down at the piano, plays and sings, and he's GOOD!!! It was one of those, "You had to be there moments." I know he collected at least $60, $20 from Bobbie, and $40 from Sterling downstairs, and I'm not sure what he got upstairs. He said he'd be back because this was a good church and what's a little drive to worship God. So, we may have the reincarnation of Glenn! LOL sma

HAD TO MAKE MY RESPONSE AS IT REMINDED ME OF A GREAT STORY
I ran into a guy, (seems to be African American types more often; I think it has to do with they've figured out how to appeal to our collective guilt). Anyway, this guy started his spiel. Well dressed, stranded, etc. I stopped him midway and said, "I think you are scamming me but here's twenty, just in case there's some truth in it." He was happy and I hedged my bets in case there was truth in it. Reminds me of this priest I use to work with. He would tell these tall stories and one day the commander called him on it since he was late for a meeting. Something like he was late because he had stopped to help someone in an accident, had to pull bodies from a flaming car, etc. The cdr sends someone to check--Finally going to get this guy. You could read his mind. Guess what? Turns out to be true. The Priest had stopped to help some folks who had plunged down a hill, pulled the people from the car. So....WHO KNOWS? My philosophy? Don't take a chance.

THE NAM: Chaplains' Assistants--unsung heroes

Returned from visit to my mom's in NJ and found your book in my mail, thank you very much. I turned immediately to the page you marked and found what you had written about me to be great, thanks again. One small note though, I was Presbyterian, not Catholic.*** I would like to give you a little history as to how I got to where you were in the Nam. I enlisted in May of '66 and requested Airborne - Viet Nam. All my training was 11B from basic, leadership training company, advanced infantry training and jump school. Along the way I specialized in indirect fire weapons - mortors - the 60, 81mm and the 4.2, this changed my mos to 11C. After I was assigned to the 101st at Fort Campbell, KY a Chaplain Bell had put in a request for a chaplains assistant for which I applied and interviewd for. There were lots of applicants but I was chosen. I worked for Chaplain Bell untill he was transfered out and Chaplain Brown was transfered in. We were deployed with the advanced party of Eagle Thrust on Nov 22 1967. All My 71M (MOS-military occupational specialty) training came OJT (On the job). I felt blessed because I achieved my original enlistment goal and was able to do a lot outside the scope of normal Infantry, such as working with Special Forces on humane missions in far off Montangard hamlets and villages, helping the Nuns and orphans with items and supplies people back in the World would send to us. But most of all, working with you ( which was a great experience) and Ch. Brown I was able to help my fellow soldiers in a great many ways that would have never happened if I wasn't part of your team. Thank you again...........Casey

***In the Nam, didn't worry about stuff like this--who was Catholic or whatever. I always think that when I hear these disputes and even awful violet happenings like Muslims attacking Christians or vice versa, these really are terms, they are labels and have nothing really to do with the true beliefs of the respective religions.

A NETHERLAND

It is sad about Victoria, but that's the glass half empty view. On the glass half full side, she may be close to getting what has been her heart's desire for a long time, to be reunited with her mother, father, and brother. I know she has NO fear of dying, and that too is a blessing. SMA

Recently, Jackie, my wife, said to me. "Victoria sat up in bed and said a very curious thing: she is so happy, just excited." When I asked what she meant, she said she really didn't know. I allowed that possibly it had to do with her soon journey from this life into the next. As our good friend above has said, Victoria has talked for years about meeting her Mom and Dad and her beloved brother, Fred. In fact, when she moved to the Health Center at the Sequios, where she lives, she put their pictures in front of the TV and has refused to permit us to move them. Maybe she senses the move to be with her beloved family. Her body has not chosen to let go but her spirit has. There are so many things that I have wondered about death. Is there a kind of nether land, a between spot, not the Catholic purgotory but a kind of way station. Maybe Victoria is already there and it is a matter of time. God bless her.

THE NASTINEST OF THE RIGHT WING

There's a side of me that honestly doesn't know how we have gotten to
this place in our society. Of course, all the talking heads can give
you various answers. It is a little like CA: largest state in the
union, very complex and contentious. Plenty of answers but few willing
to take the hard path.

A dose in perspective would help all those who seem to know all the answers, however. I was on the bus today and sat beside this lady who had one of these POW bracelets that we use to see. I commented on it and she said my son's commander sent it to me. My son was killed in Afghanistan last year. I was absolutely floored. Speechless was more like it. Immediately, I thought of what Dr.Boyce, my seminary professor told us once: sometimes there is a sympathy so great for people that you simply don't know what to say. Or, there is nothing to say. Talk about "getting it," today I did.

God bless you my brother.

Jerry

Claude brings up some good points. and something I'm wondering if it is being addressed at the chaplain's school. It should be and with the idea of what role the media plays. Claude, for instance, had enough smarts to play it
cool and understand that the media would distort or put the chaplains in a bad light. Knowing Claude as we do, we know that he was just too smart to get trapped. Today, the media is much more sophistigated as well as the chaplains and soldiers. They have Internet, email, instant everything. Today's chaplains have a lot to navigate. Maybe, here's where the indorser has to come in. What think? God bless. Jerry

Jerry,

Set down clearly what you think the schools should teach about the media; I have UM contacts in all the schools and will pass on to them.

Peace,

Tom Carter
Director of Endorsement


Tom, thanks for giving me this say. Here's what I think off the top of my head.
1. Should invite some media types in: both print and Internet, etc. like Slate. What do they report, how do they go about it, etc. Relate some stories like we're talking about. Maybe a good hard hitting round table.
ARE THEY INTERESTED IN THE TRUTH OR A STORY?

2. Some way to educate commanders. Unfortunately, so many of these guys have the same problem we have, rarely can they speak the truth. I mean, politics aside, in both Iraq and Afghanistan, we are in a mess. Let anyone dispute it. I'm listening.

3. Let the chaplains discuss what they believe their role is; personality does play a part, i. e., an SJ will approach different than an NT for instance but all will face, "loyalty to Pentagon or to God."

4. Chaplains should have a proactive PAO person, probably at the Chief's office. Much like Dave had when he was at Fort Bragg. The Chaplains got more publicity than Britney Spears. This person could be on top of the scene when chaplains are involved, not to interfere but the idea of, what is the role confusion issue? Chaplains have to be free to express opinions and say what they believe. I have read so much stuff from WW 11 chaplains and did they ever have it easy. All they had to do was minister.

5. Has to be emphasized that we are not spokespersons for the military and we are ministers in uniform and more likely than not, soldiers still trust us.

Tom, if I can think of anything else, will fire it off to you. God bless. You're doing good work. {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Jerry}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

THE BRAVEST OF THE BRAVE

Today, I did what Jackie often says to me "you are now free to move about San Francisco." And, I did, went to the Blues Festival for a bit, like an ADD type might. As I was making my way back across the City, I saw hundreds of breast cancer survivors apparently finishing their three day participation in a walkathon. It was pretty inspiring, people were cheering and clapping all across town. They began by camping out all night on the Marina in little pink tents. Quite a sight. At UCSF (University of CA at San Francisco which is the medschool and all the health Sciences) UCSF is always listed as one of the top hospitals in the world when it comes to treating and fighting cancer. UCSF has these quilts made by survivors all over the hospital. I'll post a few. They are great.

MASH

I was watching a rerun of M*A*S*H. I heard a quote by Frank Burns that I thought was so funny. Had to go out to Internet to find it. Thought I would pass along. Unless we all conform, unless we follow our leaders blindly, there is no possible way we can remain free.




This is funny. Mash use to be on my daily schduled activities. I've seen all the shows. Ujongbu which they are constantly referencing in the show is where I was for two years. 2077 Mash was about a mile away from Camp Red Cloud where I was. Our running group, The Camp Red Cloud Thinclads would run by where it use to be every morning. The only part of Mash that was actually filmed in Korea was the opening with the helicopter coming in with the mountains in the background. Thanks for sharing.

Email Exchanges on grief, family, war

***I suppose this is a busy weekend for you. It is a difficult one for me as my
emotions seem to be divided up between honor and anger. I continue to
concentrate on my brother's memories so they do not fade as I grow older. I
know it is hard for the loved ones of those killed in Vietnam to figure out
a good reason for their death because of the way our government pulled out
of there when we could have been victorious, but I keep referring back to my
brother's letter where he wrote "we don't belong here...these boys should be
back home....but if it means it keeps my little brother from having to come
over here....then it is all worth it! As usual...he was always thinking of
others. I miss him dearly.
Ruth

Ruth, it is so great hearing from you. I think of you so very often.

One of the things I've learned about grief over the years is that
there is no timetable. I'm sure you miss your brother terribly and in
many ways, it is just like yesterday. Plus, there is no right way or wrong way to grieve. Whatever way you do it is the right way.

Today I had a wedding. In fact, I decided that it was the last one I'm
going to do. And, I will have to say that it was a good one to end on.
An African American couple who wrote their vows and he sang his to her.

My connection to the bride was through Rose, that I drove to her chemo appointments every week for almost two years. (I've kept a blog called, tuesdayswithrose.typepad.com) Rose died last Oct. Charlotte,
the bride, lived in the same apartment building and was so kind
to Rose and when she asked me to do her wedding, I couldn't refuse and
did it in honor of Rose. I still miss Rose terribly but feel her
spirit is here as I'm sure you do with Tim.

I was watching the Memorial Concert tonight and as usual, it was
wonderful. But, I couldn't help wondering about the young soldier who
had lost half his brain and was so severely impacted--they featured
him on the program. I just wondered if the soldier had been given his
choice, what would he want? To die on the battlefield or to be in the
state he is now, hardly knows he's in the world. His mother and sister
giving up their lives to care for him. Is that what he would want.
What do think?

Ruth, so great hearing from you, a wonderful Memorial Day gift. Thank
you. God bless.

Jerry



Jerry, I am sad to hear about the passing of your friend, it sounds like she had a
difficult battle towards the end. In the last 12 years I have visited my mom
in the nursing home I have come to one conclusion and that is I will never
let myself live to the point where I am in my own world that can not be
shared with others. That would be such a lonely place to be.

I don't understand the fact that we will put our pets out of pain and misery and yet
we let our love ones live on in a place no one but them understand or do
even they? They say life is suppose to be a journey and where can one go if
they are tied to a wheel chair, slumped over and seem to be caught in between
two worlds....it would seem like they were lingering and the loved ones are
to selfish to let them go and the nursing home is still making a buck on
them.

I am sure if these people would know before hand they would be caught
in limbo, they would ask for the same mercy we give our pets. I think Dr
Kevorkian had the right idea but just the wrong process. Everyone should be
able to make choices. People speak of suicide and how it is a sin, but I
don't think the God I know would view it as such, why would he want anyone
to suffer unnecessarily. Are we so selfish in wanting them to stay? We are
asking them to be in our world and under our conditions...yet we can not
share their world as we have no idea where that is.

It also angries me, the media does little to cover the wars and conflicts where loved ones are dying on a regular bases...it just seems as no one cares anymore. They give no reports of the number of soldiers who come back with PTSD, missing limbs, brain dead or many other traumas. It seems like Paris Hilton and Britney
Spears and their parties or rehabs of taken over the news, now how silly is
that or should I say...how stupid is that? Memorial Day is no longer what it
was set up for...it has just become the "first summer holiday" for three
days of boozing or boating, fishing...the first week-end back to work no one
talks about what the did to honor someone on Memorial Day but rather where
did they go out of town. I feel sorry for the young man you were talking
about, what a sacrifice he has made. But if he was able to tell his family
how he felt, I have no doubt he would ask them to let him go. I would not
want to see his family giving up their lives to tend to him. In early wars
they did not have the medical expertise that they do now. If someone had
half his brain blown away...he would have died.Bottom line....is it greed
from many sources that keep these people in limbo keep living?

My reborn again sister is still living outside of the world of reality. She
says she believes in the rapture. She told me on the day...if the pilot of
a jet was a Christian and the passengers were not....the pilot would be
taken by God and saved and the rest of the non-Christian people in the plane
would crash and die. She goes to a church that talks in tongues. She is up
set with her kids as she does not think they go to church enough. It is
almost like she loves them more if they attend church.
Ruth

Ruth, thanks for the family slitrep. Families can be something else to
say the least. My brother and I have just finished our family memoirs
of our growing up years on a tobacco farm in eastern North Carolina.
It has been about seven years in the making and my family is pretty
much opposite than yours.

Religious right wing types are somewhat of a phenomena: they proof
text the scriptures, meaning they take one little portion and zero in
on it and that is all they give credence too. As my seminary professor
use to say, "you can prove anything you want by the Bible but you
can't prove anything you want too by the whole Bible. "

In writing our family memoirs we were often badgered with religion of
the right wing type but what made a vast difference in our family is
that my Dad who in present day terms would be spiritual but not
religious. We laughed lots about it and my aunts who were so involved,
along with my Grandpa who was a Pentecostal preacher. My Dad would
often laugh at their antics and they laughed at themselves and that
made all the difference in the world. My brothers tell stories of my
aunts shouting and falling onto the floor. It was something like an
earthquake since my aunts topped the scales at close to 300 pounds. We
still laugh and talk about it.

God richly bless you.

*** To read more of Ruth's writings go to READ RUTH'S BOOK: FACES BEHIND THE NAMES

SUICIDE REVISITED

Email to Chaplain working in the area of suicide prevention

Have you all been able to determine from research much about the increase in the suicide rate? I have been in several discussions which seem to focus on the trend increasing related to those who enlist, i.e. those from the lower categories seem to have fewer life skills to cope or seek help. In a conversation with a CH at the Fort Jackson hospital, there seems to be fewer in the psy ward with the summer enlistees who are mostly high school graduates than later in the year when the recruiters are enlisting whoever they can sign up. I know this may be only one of the factors added to repeated deployments, single parent families, etc. How does the Army rate compare to the Air Force and Navy? I’m interested in any general thoughts. TC

The following is from a chaplain that is working in the agency responsible for developing programs, etc. for suicide prevention. He is confirming some of the discussions I have been having, starting with chaplains in Italy and Germany, and then continued with you all and chaplains at Ft Jackson. tc

Thanks for the interest in this area. As you can imagine there is a whirwind of activity around this topic right now. The observation of high school vs. later year enlistees is in fact reliable, although some will try to explain it away through other factors. The Army rate is the highest among the services and a concerted effort of Army and DoD agencies is finally beginning to develop and rely upon statistical analysis and measurements to get a broader and at the same time more specific handle on this entire phenomena. Although the stress remains high for Families and Soldiers, many suicides are occuring with Soldiers who have never deployed. This begs the question of what additional factors - rather than the immediate focus of deployment - contribute to suicidal ideation, attempts and completions. Actually, as morbid as it sounds, it is a fascinating subject.

For instance, we have wrestled with the idea of the decline in the importance of the Church as an institution to condemn suicide as a means of ending ones own life and/or pain. Rather, culturally it seems we have quasi-adopted the stoic warrior mentality, thus being more accepting of suicide.

I just completed reading a book by Thomas Joiner entitled, "Why People Die by Suicide", (Harvard Univ Press). Some very current research and theory on this topic. Absolutely riveting discussion regarding burdensomeness and feeling valued/loved as indicators or warning signs of increased risk of death by suicide.

Sorry for going on, but a very compelling and interesting research area, in addition to developing methods to save lives.

I didn't quite understand from your chaplain, was he saying that young high sch enlistees with less a value system were more likely to take their own lives than an older more seasoned soldier. So, if soldiers are committing suicide apart from the stresses of deployments, etc., this means they are bringing this into the service with them . Consequently, we/rexruiters are not catching or seeing this before they get in or they are and are choosing to ignore.

I'm going to order the book he mentioned. In terms of discussion, I can't help but contrast the breast cancer survivors that I've been volunteering by driving them to treatment and their attitudes. They will do almost anything to survive; suffer any pain, indignity and yet here are these youngsters, lives ahead of them and they do themselves in.

I think that my theory might be just as good as any now that I'm thinking about it. However, although the military would not adopt it as they always want an answer or take the Marine philosophy, a two day class, problem solved. But, I believe that most who take their lives momentarily go crazy. They are walking across the GG Bridge and suddenly get the impulse to jump. Their lives are not where they want it to be. Money problems, wife or family difficulties, whatever, they lose it, they jump. And unfortunately, if they are successful in their attempt, there is no turning back. GusDavis Aughtry







=

SUICIDE AMONG THE TROOPS

I have talked to a few of our chaplains concerning the suicide increase. In summary, most attribute it to the following….not necessarily in order

1) Post-war traumatic Stress

2) Break down in family relationships. (Divorce among military Married Couples is at an all time high

3) Too many “hardship” tours

4) Overwork/stress/lack of sleep dpp



Dave, this is good. Thanks. It is interesting to me whether the calibers of the Volunteer Army has anything to do with it. The stuff I read indicates that for those who are prone to suicide, the more emotionally sophisticated they are, the quicker they will seek help. Many who take their lives probably do so because of some or all of the reasons you mentioned, yet if they don't seek help, is it because they are less emotionally sophisticated, i. e., possibly come from lower socio economic classes ( which is the elephant in the room that we never talk about).

When we had a draft army, mixed in with the kids from all walks of life were doctors and lawyers and Indian chiefs sons. Now, they are not there, I don't think or are they? gda

I wouldn’t doubt that there is truth to what you say. The problem is…it is not measurable and very difficult to identify. I would suspect another factor is the lack of a faith commitment. The highest percentage of enlistees are non-churches…so say the chaplains. Having said that there are a significant number who are coming to faith in Christ, attending Bible Studies, etc. Also, the troops seem to be doing a fantastic job, highly motivated, etc. dpp

EMAIL EXCHANGE

ARE THEY UP TO THE TASK. A very belated, but heartfelt Happy New Year to you. Do so hope 2009 will be better than the past year, and yes, I agree we have always been a resilient people who seem to always be able to survive adversity and claw our way back up. Somehow, I am a little unsure about this generation having the backbone to sacrifice what it takes for the good of all, but surely pray I am wrong. Are we as strong as the "Greatest Generation"? Guess we'll find out. Oh well, inauguration was great: a new beginning, and hope again is evident everywhere, so we will all support our new president and his administration with our prayers and best wishes and thoughts - they will surely need them.

Your Dad was right about those who mess with the Jews, they will ultimately get zapped! But like you, this latest conflict has been heart wrenching to watch. At least there seems to be a cease fire for now, but we all know that will not last. The Jews are so despised by the Arab world, and Israel does have every right to defend themselves, so even though the whole situation appears hopeless right now, there will come a day when your Dad's prophecy will be fulfilled, because it comes right out of God's Word! bbc


What a mess, on every hand. And, we have to hope the new President is doing the right thing, mainly that he is doing something which has to happen. We have to get people back to work. I am often in the fog. For instance, if a company says it is not doing well, what it looks to me, they just aren't making as much profit. So...they are paying their bills, breaking even, people are working. So, what is the big deal? I relate it to a doctor buddy of mine who was griping about the economy recently. He went to easily making from a half million down to $200,000; his idea was because of the government, HMOs, etc., private doctors could no longer make the big money. So...2 hundred thousand didn't sound so bad to me. See what I mean, I can't get it.

I have debated my Dad's philosophy a good bit. His greater one was "to always do what is right," and truly that is no small thing. Personally, I think it is one of those problems like immigration, insoluable. Simply, can't be done. The politicians and "talking heads" never talk in those terms but until Jesus comes again, have to do the best we can. Last Sunday night's Sixty Minutes carried a piece of the settlers living in the West Bank and how in a sense, they abused the Palestinians. Now, that is an example of my Dad's "doing what is right" is involved. Oh well...ja

IN MEMORIUM--Kay Yow

My brother, Raz's, first coaching job was in Gibsonville, N. C. In fact, I remember it quite well. My brother is thirteen years older than me and I was in the 6th grade. I went to live with him and his wife, Ireni, for most of a school year. My Mom had gotten really sick and so it seemed to be the best option for me to be assured that I toe the mark and do what I needed to do. It was a good time, even if I did occasionally chafe under the discipline. And, from this aged perspective, what a wonderful charitable act theirs was.

And, while in Gibsonville, a youngster just a few years younger than me was already a budding athlete, Kay Yow. My Brother recognized early on, how super she was and in the parlance of today's speech, became her mentor. She died a couple of days ago. Kay, having gone on to achieve all kinds of honors in her sport, Olympic gold metal, successful coaching career; but, maybe her greatest success was in living for over twenty years with breast cancer. I think I read somewhere where she was in remission for half of her time. Good for her. Eventually, however, she had no choice, the insidious disease took her.

Below is an email, my sister-in-law forwarded with a wonderful link of Kay's testimony to her faith. I know my brother is very sad but without sounding too much like a know it all preacher, she truly is in a better place and the suffering is at an end.
jda

Hello, all --

Many of you know about the death of Kay Yow. When I was in college, I would go to FCA meetings with Amy in the hopes that Kay Yow would be there. When famous folks die, we usually don't know the status of their spiritual condition but I have no doubt -- from the many testimonies about her faith and my own personal take of what we knew of her -- that today she is cancer-free and in the presence of the Lord. I wanted to see if her personal testimony was published somewhere online -- especially as public as she was with her faith and I found it. I thought you guys might also be interested in reading it...it certainly was an encouragement to me. The YouTube clip on the side of the page is also an encouragement as she talks about success from a Biblical perspective if you have 5+ minutes to watch it. K and K Hilliard

http://www.beyondtheultimate.org/athletes/Kay-Yow.aspx

PRAYER

There's a saying among preachers, "He who prays much in private, prays little in public, " I don't think Rick Warren and Reverend Lowery got that at the Inauguration. Reverend Lowery gets a "pass." He was there in the beginning with MLK. Based on the historic event of a new President who happens to be African American and the good Reverend's age, he is authorized to be and say what he wants. Personally, I kind of liked the ending of his prayer, the sing song way of it. There's a name for it, mostly originating in the South, "Whoop," a kind of cadence, a sort of poetry of preaching. MLK used it almost always and definitely in his, "I Have A Dream" speech.

Now, Rick Warren is another story. His prayer bordered on egomania. I was fearful that his prayer was going to be longer than the Inaugural address. It came close. To be honest, nobody would have expected a "quickee" prayer but come on, Warren was over the top. And, what is it with us Evangelicals (My Church is the Evangelical Presbyterian Church and my Presbytery is in Denver) that insist on praying In Jesus Name. It is like some mantra that we must do in public to proclaim our allegiance. For our churches, this may be OK but for a world stage, this simply reinforces often what many believe: that we are bigots and exclusive at worse and at best, egomaniacs. Well Warren confirmed it. I don't get it and never will. Next case.

What are your thoughts on this, Chaps.  I am in favor of ending “don’t ask, don’t tell.”  My gay friends pay their taxes, serve the community, etc.   Most of us are old enough to remember the predictions that integrating the military services would bring chaos.  Didn’t happen.  Just require the same discipline of gays as we do of heteros. 

MY THOUGHTS

Lamar, I take a little different tack. For instance, if gays want to marry, no sweat. I voted NO on Prop 8 which really was a "yes" that they could marry. As a Bible thumper, there's simply not enough Biblical admonition against it and, of course, Lesbians get a pass. But, love is all over the New Testament and I can't imagine Jesus being less than accepting. But, then again, the very word, marriage, traditionally connotes a union between man and woman. This sounds like double talk and so have to say for me, in light of many thing, if they want to marry, fine with me. I liked the civil union idea. And, I admit some homophobia. I get a little tired, especially here, of pandering to the gays. And, constantly have to clean up my language in reverting to NC talk and saying "fruits" etc. I do have several gay friends. Well, acquaintances but my"girlfriends" as Jackie calls them and they are a typical bunch of old farts who deride gays and my language is generous compared to what they would say. 

The military is another story. I like the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy. Mainly, it allows gays to serve without having to put up with the homophobia of the soldier. And, let's keep in mind, the military is designed to fight and win wars. It is not a social organization. And, openly having gays, especially in combat units, will create trouble and take away from the mission, I think. I know that other countries have successfully integrated gays but they are not combat oriented as we are, I don't believe anyway.  I just think it takes away from the mission. But, I also think that since we have a Volunteer Army, there's a difference too. It could be part of the "contract. " When they sign up, they accept the idea that gays will be serving alongside them. Will it solve the problem? No, just as integrating the military has not done away with racism, doing away with "don't ask, don't tell" is not going to do away with gay bashing. 

I think the new president will end, "don't ask, don't tell" but I think it is a mistake. So, there you have it. 

Jerry

HEALING AND LIFE

Chaps, we are having our 3rd service of anointing and laying on of hands for the sick this coming Sunday. The service has been remarkably well received.

RESPONSE

My real feelings are that the oil and laying on of hands is not going to hurt. If it comforts someone, super. If, however, you claim this literally does something, hmmmmm. Making God too much in our lives reduces Him/Her to arbitrary, i. e., who should be healed. Too much of a problem.

If I were back with a congregation now and thank the Lord, I'm not, I would be wanting them to deal with the Gaza conflict, the Biblical interpretation of all of this, i. e., did God really give the Jews this land? And, how literal can we deal with the Old Testament with the Christian idea that God will always do what is right.

Also, My experience as a pastor was that few Christians were willing to probe the greater truths but rather opted for very surface stuff. Maybe what you see you are doing is trying to move them to greater depths. More power to you. Power in the blood. God bless you in your ministry.

This is just feedback and opinion. You are out there in the "arena" fighting away and I affirm you for it.

It does something, Jerry!  At our first such service I asked Merle to anoint and lay hands on me for the anger I have held against Alan for ruining his life.  Grew to almost hate him.  I am at peace with that now.  What was it, the oil and hands, or me naming my problem and seeking God’s grace.

 

We do this only after we have prepared the folks.  It is low key.  I tell the folks that God’s word won’t return void, that no obedience to God will ever be wasted, however they must understand that God will give them what he knows they need.

 

Example, the friend who had her nurse call asking me to talk with her husband and help him to let her go.  I stood on one side of her bed and Dave stood on the other.  I felt in my spirit that I needed to tell her that she would have to accept whatever God gave (Dave was listening intently), that he would give something.  Later, I realized that the grace God gave was to Dave, helping him come to peace about her going.  Yes, I believe that it is real.  What we do is not Oral Roberts, but we reach the point of anointing after hymns and liturgy lead us to the point of faith.  It is working, Jerry.  With my Pentecostal background I have shunned such things, but it is in the Bible.  This UCC congregation and co-pastor are seeing good things happen and asking that this service be quarterly.  And our adult Bible teacher lives quietly and faithfully with his male partner.  Can you believe it?  We have arrived at a good point, not by reducing our faith to mere nothing, but by showing love and acceptance in Christ’s name.

 

Eileen was remarkably improved, sat up the next day, had four good days at home, then the infection came back.

 

Shirley and I visited Eileen this afternoon in Hospice, sang to her and prayed for her.  She is on her way out, but I don’t fell that our efforts were wasted.  She had four more days at home and Dave is now at peace with her going. 

 

I am a better pastor now than ever.  Why did it take me so long?

MORE RESPONSE: Lamar, you are having a wonderful ministry with your healing services. How do you pray for people? Do they come forward and ask for specific healing? I have done it different ways. After they kneel I have asked them in private what it is they need healing for and I have had them fill out cards and hand them to me as they kneel. I don't think we offer this healing service enough in our churches. People have deep needs that they don't know what to do with and a healing service gives them an opportunity to name them, be anointed and prayed for. God bless your ministry.  Bernie

HEROES-email exchange

I love the last line of “Band of Brothers” where the real life surviving ranger is asked by his grand-daughter if he was a hero in the war? His answer, “No, but I did serve with the real heroes of the war.”

I love that line as it says so much about the military.

Though some of us did not see combat, or experience any hostilities, we were fortunate enough to serve with those heroes that did!db


I've thought lots of heroes and bravery. Surely lots are, soldiers who are in combat or even the threat of combat; but, I will have to say that over the last couple of years I've been involved on being basically the driver for Rose, fighting breast cancer for 10 years: diagnosed at 30, died just shy of her 41st birthday, my views have changed. I watched her die slowly and during the time I was with her, met lots of cancer survivors. Now, with soldiers, sometimes it's hard to gage. But, with Rose and these many that I met, from my perspective, there is no doubt, we are talking bravery and real heroes.
jda

SOLDIER CHRISTMAS MEANDERINGS

CHRISTMAS IN KOREA


Alice, recently I was talking with someone and got to talking about various things and I told them about us Christmas caroling at Camp Red Cloud in Korea one Christmas. Funny what we remember but I remember going into the NCO (non commissioned officers) Club. There were about a dozen of us. And, you were the choir leader and amidst the GIs playing the slot machines, we sang Silent Night. It was a poignant moment. We laughed about it later but I remember that guys stopped and for that moment were really reverent. And, it became the seed for many a sermon after then, the idea that amidst the secular of life and the profane in a sense, the Prince of Peace even goes. A good message during the holidays for sure. da


ONE TIRED CHAPLAIN


I remember Christmas Eve, 1969, Ben Hoa: After doing zillions of services, visiting the Perimeter guards, etc, I was washed out by midnight. I fell into my bunk and went into sound sleep. Sometime after someone banged on my door, “Chaplain, there is an 11th Armored Cav. Soldier at the top of the water tower and he is threatening to jump.” I was so “pissed” that the 11 ACR wouldn't put a chaplain back for their approximately 1,000 soldiers, and that they had caused me such grief, fighting, etc, that I had used up all my compassion. I said, “tell him to go ahead and jump” and went back to sleep. Well, I finally did struggle out and talked the drunk GI off the water tower. Thank you Lord and Merry Christmas. LH

**Commentary: Remember the empty chairs at holiday tables

By Joseph L. Galloway
McClatchy Newspapers

Even in hard times, this is the holiday season and a time when thoughts turn to home and family and dinner tables covered with food and gaily wrapped presents and bright lights. Save a moment amid the celebrations to give thought to the hundreds of thousands of men and women in uniform in far-flung parts of this world who won't be sitting down to dinner with their families. More than 170,000 men and women of our military will spend their Christmas and New Year's in Iraq and Afghanistan, where killing and dying never take a day off.

Oh, Uncle Sam will do his best to see that most of them sit down to a special dinner of hot turkey and dressing and all the trimmings, and even in the most remote outpost some soldier or Marine will jury-rig a tree of sorts with decorations of sorts. But it's a hollow celebration for a lonely soldier so far from home and loved ones, and lonely, too, at that dinner table back home where a chair stands empty at the head of the table.

The holidays always bring the troops to mind for me. My earliest memories are of holidays during World War II when rationing of meat and sugar and all manner of things that we take for granted today made the feasting and gift-giving a lot more difficult. My dad and six of his brothers were all gone to war, along with four of my mom's brothers. I grew up in houses full of frightened women who were doing their best to make do on shortened rations and small allotment checks. My mother got $17 a month from dad's $21 a month pay.
Times were hard, but every American, indeed everyone in the world, had a stake in a war that was ravaging much of Europe and Asia and would kill 60 million people before it was over.

I have my own memories of holidays spent with soldiers and Marines in combat zones from Vietnam to the Persian Gulf to Iraq. The first was Christmas in An Khe with the 1st Cavalry Division in 1965. The newly arrived division and my friends in the 7th U.S. Cavalry had been blooded in the previous month's terrible battles in the Ia Drang Valley. The memories of young men wounded and dying all around were fresh in our minds. The gaps in our ranks had been filled with green troops yanked out of replacement depots, and the new arrivals looked at the old, sad eyes of men no older than they were with awe, and we all wondered what fresh Hell we'd found ourselves inhabiting. And along came the Bob Hope traveling troupe to take our minds off the war for a couple of hours. Everyone howled at Bob's corny jokes and Jerry Colona's slapstick antics. Everyone's eyes bulged at the sight of a scantily clad Joey Heatherton dancing wildly around the stage.

When it was over, most of us just sat there on the ground wishing it wasn't; wishing we weren't there; wishing that we were home in a crowded living room smelling the treats soon to emerge from a hot, busy kitchen. Then everyone got up, brushed the red dirt off their jungle fatigues and drifted back to their green Army tents and cots. Back to reality.

Another memory is of Thanksgiving in the Saudi Arabian desert in November of 1990. I'd signed up to go eat turkey and trimmings with some unit, somewhere out among the sand dunes, when I was called to board a bus with two dozen other reporters and photographers. The bus would stop at an empty crossroads, and the guy with the clipboard would call off a name or two and drop them before moving on. My turn came, and I stepped off literally in the middle of nowhere. A tall captain of artillery stepped up and saluted: "Mr. Galloway, we are C Battery, 1st Battalion, 21st Field Artillery. We call ourselves The Falcons and you will understand why far better than anyone. We provided fire support for the 7th Cavalry at Landing Zone X-Ray in the Ia Drang. "I stood there unable to say a word, tears rolling down my cheeks. Then I knew that somewhere in that cold, forbidding institution that is an Army, there was both a memory and a heart, and that heart was as tender as my own. I've never had so fine a Thanksgiving dinner as that one in an Army mess tent in a cold, windswept desert; never enjoyed the company and camaraderie so much as I did then and there. Used without permission but we don't think Joe will mind.

**We think the President elect took a note from Joe and send a great message to the troops."

HEAVEN

Someone recently asked me did I believe in heaven? I do and have thought lots about it and here are my comments.

I definitely believe in heaven. It gives me comfort to think that in the great mystery of life and death, that this time on earth is not the end. My favorite Bible verse reiterates this. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

For me personally, I wonder about how heaven will be. I don't think it will be in what we call a temporal sense, meaning knowing in the way we do now, earthy sort of stuff. I would want my friends to meet up with all the special people that I've known in this life. And, it would have to be in a way where the memory of them is not as we would think. Intimacy issues, etc. Of what they would be, I really don't know. It sounds very complicated but in my own mind, I see that heaven can work it out. OK, my theory which is as good as any.

SUICIDE

This friend of mind recently committed suicide and I am devastated. He had been calling me throughout the week wanting to talk. I just didn't see it coming. It is so tragic. I was on the way to see him when I found out. There's a lot involved. I am totally in shock.

So sorry. My counsel is first of all, not your fault, nothing you can do about it. And, you never, never want to ever think you are responsible for someone else's behavior. Suicide is such a difficult thing mainly as it is so wrapped in the tragic and sad circumstances often of mental illness, mostly bipolar types, which is sad in itself. I subscribe to the Albert Ellis view, (guy who developed theory of RET, Rational Emotive Therapy) that a person's life belongs to them and if they choose to end it, their decision. Sounds really cold and there is only relative truth to it, I believe. Mainly, that every suicide victim has a different story. Most of the time, drugs and almost always mental illness is involved. My experience.

Over the years, I've come to believe that most of the time, a person momentarily goes crazy; unfortunately, if they are successful, there is no changing their minds.

Here in San Francisco, we are constantly debating those who jump off the Golden Gate Bridge and it is indeed a popular spot. When I was a chaplain at Letterman Army Medical Center, when it was a 250 bed teaching hospital, part of our job was to retrieve the jumpers and get them to the hospital's morgue as they almost always died. Rarely, but it did happen, one lived. And, I talked to one who did. He told me that he immediately, after jumping, knew he'd made a mistake and wanted to live and so he got himself in a position to hit the water straight: feet first and together (much like paratroopers are taught to land feet together) as opposed to just randomly flopping. Saved his life. For him, it was a spur of the moment decision. And, he is an example of the thinking now, if we can do something to take away a person's ability to be spontaneous as to taking their lives, i. e., a barrier at the Golden Gate Bridge. And, once they are over the impulse, they are OK, at least for the moment.

I know you feel badly and I would too. If he had talked to you, would it have prevented it, maybe? Hard to know but you are not responsible. I think the key is to recognize mental illness and then to be responsible with what you believe the problem to be. I don't know if you have ever been involved with someone who is crazy (my shrink friend says the best definition of how to know someone is crazy is that you can't understand them--I've always found that is exactly right, just can't understand them or their behavior). I have stories to tell. A couple of them, I do not know how I survived, always grateful. People that you truly care about who simply are on another planet, sometimes a different galaxy.

Sorry about your friend and the difficulty. All life is the laboratory. da